Catching Up on All Things WooCommerce with Paul Maiorana

Catching Up on All Things WooCommerce with Paul Maiorana
Do the Woo - A WooCommerce Podcast

 
 
00:00 / 00:41:36
 
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When you have the chance to chat with the General Manager of WooCommerce, it brings some great opportunities to dig deeper into the ecosystem. From the vision for 2020, including WooCommerce Payments, to the thinking behind the recent Marketplace pricing restructure, we have it all in this episode.

A Conversation with Paul Maiorana from WooCommerce

In episode 43 of our podcast, Jonathan Wold and I chat with Paul about:

  • The WooCommerce mission and vision for 2020
  • The balance between the merchants, users and developers.
  • What is coming with WooCommerce Payments and a deeper look into the reason it was developed.
  • The goal to create a smooth experience for WooCommerce users that goes beyond Payment Gateways.
  • The recent pricing structure change in the Marketplace at WooCommerce.com.
  • The release of WooCommerce 4.0.

Thanks to our sponsors

We started off by revisiting the WooCommerce mission with Paul and learning a bit more about the bigger picture of the vision for 2020. A lot of the conversation was about making WooCommerce even easier for new and existing users. Paul shared the pain points and how they are being worked on to give WooCommerce a smoother experience.

This led to a discussion around the newly announced WooCommerce Payments. It is in the very stages of beta and we learned why this important piece is being add to the tools Woo provides. Paul and Jonathan talked about the empowerment it brings to Woo, and also how other gateway payment companies are reacting to the announcement.

Of course, this new payment gateway is only the beginning of tackling pieces of Woo to help with new users as they begin the journey of building their online stores.

I asked Paul more about the pricing structure change in the WooCommerce.com marketplace and the reasoning behind it. It was interesting how this not only affects Woo but the end users and developers who purchase this. With all the 3rd party developers who have extensions on the marketplace, their needs were also a big part of the decision.

Lastly, we looked a bit more into the model of multi-licenses, and as someone who has done client work and designed sites in the past, I added my .02 as well.

Woo News

WooCommerce Meetups – Since Jonathan, this week’s co-host, is involved in growing WooCommerce meetups, we chatted about the current situation of the Coronavirus and what he is seeing and recommending for that community, including virtual meetups.

Apply for the WooCommerce Developer Advocate – Paul shared that they are hiring a Developer Advocate. They are looking for someone with a technical or engineering background to come on board to help more developers build in WooCommerce or build products for WooCommerce. This person would also be responsible for helping to increase engagement between their team and the WooCommerce developer community. You can apply here.

Where To Connect with Paul

  • On Twitter @pmaiorana
  • Post Status Slack community and WordPress.org Slack community: pmaiorana

You can also see our posts on the latest release here:

Bob: Hey everyone, welcome back. BobWP here. It's Do the Woo, podcast number 43. I am joined by my partner in crime and cohost Jonathan Wold. How are you doing. Jonathan?

Jonathan: Bob, it's good to be here. I'm doing very well, thank you.

Bob: This is a special show. I say that about every show because yeah, they are all special and I just can't help it. We have a very cool guest that I want to introduce momentarily, but first I want to thank our sponsors. FooEvents.com, a powerful event and ticket functionality that you can add to your WooCommerce site. You can check them out at FooEvents.com. Also thanks to WPSiteSync.com. They have come out with a new WooCommerce add on.

Jonathan: They've been working on that for a long time.

Bob: Yeah, it's cool. I'm going do a post on it because it's pretty slick. You can easily push out those new products and updates.

Jonathan: Yes, it's a very difficult problem to solve.

Bob: When he showed it to me, I thought, I'm glad other people do this stuff and I can just reap the benefits. And then of course we want to thank WooCommerce.com. I figured out my new tagline for WooCommerce.com. Your cup runneth over with Woo. I don't know. That's a pretty lame one, but I'm going to come up with a new tagline every show. So I just want to thank those sponsors for making this show possible.

And WooCommerce is our community sponsor. Speaking of WooCommerce, our guest is Paul Maiorana. Whoops, I screwed that up.

Paul: Maiorana.

Bob: Oh, right. Well that's the only time I have to say it, so that's good. I can't screw it up more than once.

Paul: It's okay. I'm used to it.

Bob: First of all, welcome to the show.

Paul: Thanks for having me.

How Does Paul Do the Woo?

Bob: And this is a question that I feel really weird asking you, Paul. How do you do Woo?

Paul: How do I do the Woo? WooCommerce plays a fairly large role in my life. I'm the general manager of the WooCommerce team and business at Automattic. I spend my days basically all day long thinking about WooCommerce and how we can make it better.

Jonathan: I wanted to add for me, being fairly new to Automattic, one of the things that I was especially excited about with Paul in his role is that he was on the VIP side of things before. So he has a lot of the agency background and context and a much wider view of the ecosystem as a whole, which I think is so important.

Paul: I've been in this position leading WooCommerce for the last six weeks. Officially I was in the role of an interim since May. Before that I had been with Woo for about three and a half years or so leading our partnerships team. Prior to that I led our WordPress.com VIP business here at Automattic, which was our enterprise WordPress hosting and support service for a number of years. So I have spent about nine years or so here at Automattic and in the WordPress community.

Bob: Very cool.

Jonathan: Lots of context.

WooCommerce Mission and Vision

Bob: Yup. What I want to start with, and this has been something that Jonathan's been burrowing into my brain a little bit, is your mission. I've heard him talk about it and what I love about a mission is you can mold it and tweak it. Can you tell us a bit about the mission to give people a better grasp on it?

Paul: Sure. Our mission at Woo is pretty succinct. The WordPress project mission is to democratize publishing. We've sort of borrowed that for WooCommerce and we talk a lot about it. We want to democratize commerce. That is our mission at the end of the day. The mission is pretty static and something that we feel strongly about.

The vision is looking a few years out on how we think and what that forward-looking place where we want Woo to be to help us deliver on that mission. So our vision for WooCommerce is to build a platform that's compelling and meets the needs of small businesses that sell anywhere and helps them grow their stores. I think that is a big part of what WooCommerce has done so well over the years, made it easy for stores to get online.

I think we have a lot of work to do there. Don't get me wrong. But if you're someone who's already in the WordPress community, you know you are a click or two away from building a store and getting up and running with WooCommerce. But we haven't done enough. We give people a lot of tools to help them once they get online to grow their store, but not really a solution. They have to know that they need to build an email list or CRM.

These are small businesses who are just developing their craft and starting their stores and they don't know the questions that they need to be asking themselves about how to make their stores successful. So that's a big part of this. It's a subtle change in the vision, but I think it's critical to understand and important because it's driving a lot of how we think about the direction of the platform. It's not just about getting online but making these stores successful and giving them a platform that will guide them along the way.

Jonathan: I like that idea of a lot of folks. They're inspired and they want to do something. They don't know what they don't know though. And there's so much information out there right now, like, there's so many different options. There's so many different ways that you can do things. So the more that we can help guide that experience, you increase the likelihood of success, which is ultimately what we want. Empowerment without guidance really isn't that helpful.

Paul: Yeah, a lot of this I should say is from the merchant's perspective. I think Woo has always been a tool that developers have found a lot of success with and it meets their needs. But I think we've left a lot to be desired on the merchant side and that's a big part of our focus. That vision right now is through the lens of what our merchants needs. That's not to say, of course, that we're not also focused on developers and meeting the needs of store builders as well. But we think that there's more work to do for one and just making merchants more self sufficient and more successful in using WooCommerce. And developers want that too. I mean, they're building sites for merchants, right? So we see this as a two birds with one stone type of thing. I got halfway into that and then I thought did I get that metaphor wrong?

The Community:Users and Developers

Bob: I think it's interesting because in a way you've got this vision for existing customers. And you have the vision for new customers and there's a lot of crossover. But then there's a lot of specific pieces that are unique to each of those. So you have to have two visions, juggling them in a way, depending on, who you're talking about.

Jonathan: That's a good example of that vision and action is through the lens of community. It's like we have this clear focus on empowering the merchants themselves. Developers are an important part of our community and the meetup program. On one hand, given a choice, I would rather a meetup focus br on the merchant and helping them. But as we have these developer meetups and we have really strong developer ecosystems, we can do so through the lens of empowering merchants. So that vision gives us the focus that we can take into all different parts of the business community, as one good example.

WooCommerce Payments

Bob: You know, this is a perfect segue into one of the things I want to talk more about, WooCommerce payments and the recent announcement of that. Tell us a little bit about that and then we can dive in a little deeper.

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Paul: Yeah, Sure. So if folks haven't heard, I believe it was just last week or maybe the week before, we introduced WooCommerce Payments or announced it as a new service we'll be offering built into WooCommerce core. Right now, it's super early. It's an invite only beta. You can go to WooCommerce.com/payments and apply to be involved.

It is launching in the U.S. to start. We're entirely focused right now on folks participating in the beta who are in the U.S. so we can learn a lot about the usage, find bugs, get feedback through the beta period. We look to go to general availability later this year. But it's something that I personally have worked on in my previous role here at Woo for some time.

So I'm especially excited to see this come to the forefront and to be able to share a little bit more about it.

Jonathan: I was just going to say, it's been great for me to get the chance to talk to folks in the Woo experts program, organizers and I’ve seen a lot of interest and excitement. Some disappointment about our focus on the U.S. versus other parts of the world, but we have to take baby steps.

Paul: You've got to start somewhere. Right? And the majority of WooCommerce stores are in the U.S. But definitely the plan is to roll it out globally.

Jonathan: The idea though, is to offer an integrated experience and give people options. They don't have to use this. They can use whatever they'd like, but we're creating what we hope to be an example of a first class experience where you have all the things in one place and we’re given a good foundation we can build on. So it's been great to see the reactions from folks. It's a positive signal about our continued investment into this ecosystem.

The WooCommerce Payment Gateway and Other Payment Gateways

Bob: I shared what I had written about it. I had a few people on Twitter comment., One person was concerned, and I don't know where she got this information, but she felt that it was going to be something that would be forced upon her to use it. It's like, okay. And that was a very unusual perception I thought, because it's like she thought, ”Oh yeah, this is what we're going to have to use, which is kind of insane to think about in the first place.

Paul: Yeah, we operate in an open platform. And it's certainly something that we think most new users will want to use, if it meets their needs. If not, you can turn it off and use Stripe or PayPal or Authorize.net. You know, all the extensions that are available currently for WooCommerce are going to still be available. That doesn't change. This is just an additional option and we think it's important one for new users.

It's the idea that you have an eCommerce platform, you get through the install, you get WooCommerce up and running, and it doesn't even have payments. I mean, the most atomic element that defines any commerce store, right? You need to be able to transact. So that's part of it. We want WooCommerce to be a more complete solution for stores. But again, we think that's just helpful in terms of improving the product experience.

We also think that just the having the dashboard and the entire interface operating from within WooCommerce brings a number of efficiency benefits for store owners. But absolutely, if your payments solution is currently meeting your needs, you should continue using that.

Jonathan: That point there, like having the interface and that experience inside of WooCommerce. One thing that's important to us is to lead by example. Our hope would be to see others looking at what we're doing and creating more first-class experiences for WooCommerce. And this is our take on it. We want it to succeed, we want it to be the best and we want it to be an example for others that this is what it looks like to build excellent integrations into Woo.

Making It a Smooth Experience for the Users

Bob: I think you both have encapsulated it perfectly because I would think of somebody sitting down saying, Hey Paul, tell me why in the heck did you start a payment gateway. And you just answered that. From someone who has trained people on WordPress and WooCommerce for more years than I care to even say, that payment gateway is a stopper for so many people. Even the struggle of which one to use, Stripe or PayPal. That's a common one. They would come to me just freaking out. And often people freeze up at that point.

Paul: It's a big decision to make.

Bob: Yeah, exactly. And having that option to easily integrate. I mean, heck, you can always change, you can do things as your store grows. But having that option to just say, it's here, I don't have to think about it. I can move ahead and get going with what's important and then I can start revisiting that later on or in the short term, or whatever.

Paul: That's right. And there's no set-up fees, no monthly fees. You're not locked into using WooCommerce payments, in a technical sense or contractual sense or anything in between.

Jonathan: Paul, you talked about the vision of helping these merchants actually grow. And when you think about all those steps towards their success, it's like, yeah, if they can't get over this hurdle, there's no path towards growth.

It Doesn’t End with Payment Gateways

Paul: That's right. And it's not just payment gateways. This is why WooCommerce shipping exists, as well WooCommerce tax, right? A lot of the feedback we hear from people is it's hard to get WooCommerce installed. I mean compared to one of our competitors. You sign up with an email address and you get a website.

We have a much more complicated install process. Before you even get to WooCommerce, you need a host, you need WordPress, and you need to understand how all of these pieces fit together. Even once you get to WordPress admin, you've installed WooCommerce, you've even gone through the onboarding wizard, you still have to go find payments and shipping and tax and marketing solutions and build an email list.

There are a lot of tools that exist out there for WooCommerce, but Woo doesn't currently feel like a solution to meeting people's needs. So again, that’s WooCommerce payments, WooCommerce shipping. You can see we're starting to pull together solutions for what most WooCommerce store owners need. Not everybody is shipping things, of course.

Jonathan: That's a great example. I've had a chance to familiarize myself recently with what's happened and the product experience has grown a lot over the years. So first, I would say we're all just trying to do a better job of helping people have more awareness that these things exist. People who use the shipping product for example, there's a lot of really happy customers who use that long-term and it's a great solution for them. And there are other solutions as well that folks can use.

To keep that barrier of entry low, you can start with what works well for your needs if you need something else. We're trying to do a better job of helping people know that these things actually exist and that they're there for them. Because there's people who don't know and are not sure what's next.

Paul: That's right. And then we'd lose them from Woo entirely at that point and they would take their store someplace else.

Bob: Yeah, I can totally relate. I try to remember back when Woo came out in 2011 and I really think about it and how it has really changed over time. And adding these kinds of things is critical. When I was training earlier on, for several years. I didn't get into eCommerce stores only for this very reason. Because I've worked with a lot of small businesses, a lot of beginners, and that was another layer that I didn't even want to deal with.

I just wanted people to go to somebody who knew their stuff on that because of all those barriers. And Woo was at its place now back in 2011, 2012 when I was doing more design, I would probably say, hey, I can easily add this service because I can make these recommendations to help them get started. So, the payment gateway, I can't even imagine what was involved. I think I was talking to Jonathan about this. The technology and everything around it makes my head hurt.

Paul: Yeah I did a lot of the early planning and research on this project and it's been a journey to learn. I wouldn't call myself a payments expert by any means. It's an incredibly technical, wonky space and comes with a significant amount of risk. It's been a lot of fun, but it's incredibly complicated as well.

How WooCommerce Payments is Perceived by Other Payment Gateways

Bob: Yeah. I imagine you are hearing on the fringes of some of the payment gateways that are looking at you thinking, "Oh, this is interesting".

Jonathan: It's about offering a better experience too, like having this integrated flow, making it easier. There's such an interesting tension with the mission, which is to democratize. This idea of making it accessible and how there are so many moving parts and pieces.

Paul: Yeah, we work with a lot of payment companies and have a lot of relationships with those folks. To be honest, a lot of people are cheerleading us here and very excited to see us moving into this space. They think what's better for Woo is better for everybody.

A Change in the Marketplace Pricing Structure

Bob: Well I'm excited to see where this goes. Let's move to a couple other things. A bit ago there was a a price structure change in the marketplace and I know we haven't really talked about it on this show. There was a lot of talk within Facebook groups and in other areas. In a nutshell, you've taken the licenses and are offering single licenses only on the marketplace. I have some thoughts on it myself, which I could share later on, but I'd like to hear a bit more About the thinking behind this and why you decided to move in this direction.

Paul: Sure. So what Bob's referencing is we had the bulk site licenses available. You could buy a 5-site pack or a 25-site pack of an extension license at a pretty steep discount. And you know, they were not very popular.

For one, it was just an extremely unpopular product. What we found is that it actually added a lot of confusion to the purchase flows and WooCommerce.com, as well as the upgrade flows, especially when a license transferred from the developer to the user. For example, I buy the license as a developer on my client's behalf. This created a lot of weird flows. We did the analysis and it was just not working for us. It was a net loss ultimately for our users.

So, for us as a business, we made a straightforward decision by looking at the data. That's not to say that we don't value developers and the developer community here, who are really the folks who are buying a lot of those licenses. But again, the vast majority of developers were not buying the bulk licenses. It was about 5% of our customer base. But there was also a philosophical change that we wanted to acknowledge here as well, which I think is even more important. We believe that merchants should own their platform. That's big and how we want to democratize commerce. You want to own your data and own your platform.

If you don't have the license keys to the products that make up your site, it limits the autonomy that you as a merchant have. I'm not saying that everyone wound up in the situation where they were at odds with their developer partners, but it's created some misaligned incentives. So we are looking at bringing back some developer incentives. Jonathan and I will be working closely on this and are rethinking our developer programs and incentives. So there's more to come and nothing to announce today. Of course developers are hugely important to our business and the WooCommerce ecosystem.

Also, I want to apologize for the way this rolled out. This was not our finest moment in terms of how it was announced. It was, honestly, a bit of a mis-coordination internally where we released this before we had an announcement ready. We got a lot of incredibly fair feedback on that point, that this was a surprise to people. And that was not the intent. So I want to acknowledge that for sure and apologize to folks who were impacted by this and know that this was not the intent.

Jonathan: Having been monitoring and interacting with folks in the community responding to this, I love that people care so much about it and that they're willing to share what they think. One of the things to just echo something that Paul said earlier, it's important to keep in mind just how big Woo is, and as much as you have to think about, what's best for the folks as a whole.

I think about this idea of democratizing and yes, we can always do things better. Like Paul said, the developers are an important aspect of this and we think we can do even better things for them, but ultimately, we do what's best for Woo as a whole. We have that perspective. We see the data, we have an awesome support team. We hear people asking questions and being confused about licensing and how this works and how that works and it's easy to miss that perspective.

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The Marketplace Makeup - WooCommerce vs. 3rd Party Developers

Paul: The only other thing I'd add too is that we really think about certain pricing changes in general. We operate a marketplace and I don't know that it's clear to folks that we only own 25% or I think even fewer of the products. We've been working really hard at growing the inventory in that marketplace to cover all the needs that store owners might have.

We own a subset of the products available in the WooCommerce marketplace. The vast majority are built by small businesses and peers and colleagues of ours in the WordPress and WooCommerce community. And of course Automattic benefits from some of these changes as the marketplace grows. But I just want to make sure people are thinking about that as well. We try to be thoughtful of our customers, of course, and developers and the end users of all of these products. But we also have to think thoughtfully about the people who are making this product.

Thoughts Behind Multi-Licenses

Bob: What I find interesting is a couple things. First of all, what you just said. I was chatting with you earlier, Paul, about how I write about a lot of the extensions on the marketplace. And until you do that, maybe when you're in there buying or if you're contacting support, you don't realize how many different developers there are in there. And sometimes comments I write about something and I didn't really pay attention to who created it. Then I will get a "Oh, thank you for writing about it.“.I pause and then I have to look it up. And I think, Oh yeah, well, you're welcome. Often these are just chosen randomly by me.

And the other piece is the one you said about giving the store owner more power of owning the extension. When this first happened, I was still amazed that any developer was using their license with clients. And I'm sure there are developers listening and saying, "Oh Bob, you know, you don't know anything about this".

But when I was designing sites as far back as 2010, I would never buy a multi-license of anything because when I did something for somebody, I isaid, you need to own this license because once I'm done, I'm gone. I mean I did some maintenance and stuff for clients. But it's like you said, it's something around the whole community and affects everybody that's in the WooCommerce ecosystem. It really affects the developer and the store owner because you as a developer can be put in a weird place.

There was a couple of licenses that I did for some people I knew to use initially. And then the time came that I didn't need the license anymore. It came around to renewal time. So, after two years down the road I have to go back to them and say, I'm not going to have this license anymore. They were cool about it and thanked me for giving them two years of it. But it was just having to do that, and if I wasn't able to get hold of them, what am I going to do? Renew it just for them? So there's a lot of friction that it can cause.

And with store owners who own multiple stores, why get locked into multi-licenses? Why not use as you need? I mean, with a physical store, you don't go to the place where you buy cash registers and ask can I buy a multi-cash register deal here? I mean maybe you can get them in bulk price or something. But for each individual store, you have certain needs, and sure there's some crossover, but put those things in place where needed. I can totally relate to that even though I don't design anymore. That was the first that came to mind when I saw this and understood why Woo was doing this.

Paul: That's right. I was just going to say we see this in the support channel all the time. Merchants know they have a WooCommerce store, but they have no idea what's underneath the surface other than the extensions. Sometimes they don't even know who built it and that's just a mess. One way that we can help clean that up is using a concept we call collaborator accounts, where the client can purchase the license and have that autonomy, but the developer can still have access to it. It shouldn't make additional friction or slow developers down. But we definitely want to put more of that autonomy in the hands of the merchant themselves.

Jonathan: At the scale that we're operating there's always going to be legitimate cases where merchants who have multiple stores are being negatively affected by this. Once again, we're looking at ways to address that in the future. But it's such a small percentage compared to the overall. We want Woo to succeed as a whole. We want more people to have success with it with moves like this. Help reduce the friction, help make it less confusing and more people likely to succeed, which ultimately is good for the entire community.

WooCommerce 4.0 Released

Bob: Yeah. Excellent. Well, we can't get away without mentioning WooCommerce 4.0 that came out this week. So anything you want to mention about that?

Paul: Yeah, I think you can see sort of where we're going here. We really want to make WooCommerce a more modern, more accessible platform for merchants. WooCommerce Admin is now in WooCommerce core and available to everybody. We've been developing it as a feature plugin for over a year now. But merging it into core I think is just another very large step in that direction.

I'm especially excited about the activity panel. I think that pulls together a lot of the rough edges of running a store. With WordPress, we've all seen the banners everywhere and it can be a little hard to kind of focus and get that attention. To be able to pull your orders into one place or your reviews, et cetera. That's just some of the more kind of iterative approaches that we've seen with other plugins in the ecosystem. WooCommerce shouldn't be just a great WordPress experience, it should be a great experience. So we're really trying to move WooCommerce itself as a platform.

Jonathan: It's also a good foundation that both leads by example and opens up a lot more opportunities. We're growing in the marketplace. Tighter integrations and better experiences overall. So it's exciting.

WooCommerce Meetups and the Coronavirus

Bob: Well, I can't leave the news without talking about what's going on in the world right now. I don't want to get into a big discussion because we could spend another hour here talking about that.

But I wanted to ask you, Jonathan, since you are involved with the WooCommerce meetups, and I know that because of the current circumstances going on, I was going to be restarting the WooCommerce meetup in Seattle, which everybody knows is currently the epicenter of the coronavirus in the U.S. and I'm putting it on hold. In fact, all WordPress meetups have been canceled indefinitely in this area. What has been your discussions or what is going on when you're talking to WooCommerce meetup organizers?

Jonathan: Great question. Frankly for me personally, I haven't been following it closely. It still feels a little surreal. I live in rural North Idaho and people around here are buying out the local Walmarts and Costcos of all the toilet paper and all hand sanitizers. I'm like, what's going on, people? Am I missing something here? Anyway, aside from a community perspective, I think that first and foremost it's important to emphasize that we want people to do what's best for their local meetup in terms of following the rules and making sure that you're doing what's best for each other's health, et cetera. That said, I think in my mind with travel and a lot of big events that have been canceled, a lot of people are just restricting travel overall. I think local events and local communities are more important than ever.

So I want our local WordPress meetups to have conversations about to make sure this keeps going. Maybe we do a local video conferences. It's more important than ever because as humans we need community. We need that sense of connection and especially within this web ecosystem. So much of the value comes through what we learn from others. The opportunity to be inspired, to be empowered.

So first and foremost we're here to support people and when people say we're concerned about this, yeah, do what you need to do, and we can help you with the messaging. But ultimately, community's important. And our encouragement is for people to find ways. If you don't feel comfortable meeting for this period of time, work on the online portion of this in your local community. How can you connect and support each other better? So it's definitely coming up a lot. But again, it's still early. I've been encouraged to see communities around the world asking questions, such as what can we do to serve our community better without giving this up? Because that's very important. You don't want to get give that up.

Bob: Yeah. And I've been exploring the initial restart of it and my idea of this is that I don't look for a way to replicate meetups. I look for other alternatives in the interim. What will work best? I don't want to say, okay, how can I make it just like a meetup? It'll be interesting to see how things play out and we are taking it day by day right now.

Paul: It's a good time to be working from home.

Bob: Yeah, it is. I mean, we know it all. But I swear to God if I see one more tweet and article about working from home now, it's like, whoa. Oddly enough, I had a home office in the early nineties. Back then that was when you were called a home-based business and you were looked upon as this scab. Like, oh, you don't have a real business. So I've lived through a lot of interesting times as far as that goes.

Well, this has been very, very good show. Really enjoyed picking your brain, Paul.

Paul: Thanks for having me. It's probably long overdue, but thanks also for what you do for the WooCommerce community. You're just an incredible asset and resource for everybody.

Bob: Thank you. Well, I don't have an announcement. Jonathan doesn't have an announcement. But Paul, why don't you share yours? We've got to have at least one announcement.

Developer Advocate for WooCommerce Position Open

Paul: Sure. For this audience, I thought I'd mention that we're hiring a Developer Advocate for WooCommerce. So if you have a technical or engineering background and you're really interested in getting more developers building on WooCommerce or building products for WooCommerce, you could help increase engagement between our team and the WooCommerce developer community. We'd love to chat. So automattic.com/workwithus is a great place to apply.

Bob: And where can people connect with you on the web?

Where to Connect with Paul

Paul: I am on Twitter @pmaiorana. You may find me jumping in on various Facebook groups around WordPress as well as the Post Status Slack community, WordPress.org, the Slack community and pmaiorana in most places, which is a little hard to sound out, but I'm sure it'll be spelled somewhere in the show notes.

Bob: And I just want to thank the sponsors once again. FooEvents.com. You probably heard earlier that you can get 100% off a full one-year by visiting fooevents.com/dothewoo. So check that out.

I want to thank WPSiteSync as well. Check out their new WooCommerce add-on. And of course, our community sponsor, WooCommerce.com. I've become more immersed in Woo more than I ever thought I would be, but it's been fun.

So why don't you close this out here, Jonathan, shut the door on another episode.

Jonathan: Be sure to subscribe on BobWP.com where you can sign up for more updates when new episodes come out. And catch us next week on Do the Woo.